Is there any other way to tell without taking it apart? It typically requires less total spark lead to produce peak power. But, since the cheap 400 block stroker assemblies came along, the 428 & 455 blocks are not worth as much. In good condition, they look cool and classy. A cylinder is under pressure after the combustion event. It can easily accommodate 2.30/1.71-inch valves and a peak intake airflow increase to 440 cfm. Thanks. Some builders have reported successful results running a static ratio as high as 11:1, but I consider those specialized applications and certainly wouldnt recommend that for everyone. Pontiac 400 or 455 Block for Performance Use The flow adds up to horsepower, but you have to consider the velocity too; you have to consider the two together. The 428 was not standard in any Pontiac in 1968. Independent testing reveals that 30 and 32 degrees of total spark lead is all thats required for maximum performance. Developed as its entry-level performance offering, Edelbrocks Performer D-port installs onto any Pontiac V-8 just like a cast-iron original. The tradeoff is less port velocity at low speed. Though the Tiger head uses a typical Pontiac intake manifold arrangement, it has a much taller deck height, and that alters the point at which the intake manifold and cylinder head meet. The smaller bowl area associated with castiron originals tends to favor a 30-degree seat angle while a wider bowl area, such as that of the Edelbrock RPM favors a 45-degree seat angle. The quicker blow-down pressure can evacuate the cylinder, the less negative work the engine must perform as the piston travels upward during the exhaust stroke. The compressive force that occurs as the air/fuel mixture ignites pushes the piston downward, rotating the crankshaft, and ultimately motivating the vehicle. The Performer RPMs wedge chamber isnt quite as efficient as a modern, fast-burn type found on other castings, and exceeding that ratio can induce detonation. As the most powerful motor in the Pontiac stable (at least on paper), the HO If I were a judge at a Pontiac show, Id have to cunt a few points off for the paint alone. A high-performance valve job consists of multiple angle seat cuts that improve the airflows transition from the bowl area into the chamber. Standard valve sizes are 2.11/1.66 inches and airflow peaks at about 280 cfm in as-cast form. I think the price is justified given its condition. Unfortunately, you cannot simply install the Warp-6 casting and all its related components on to an existing Pontiac V-8 without major disassembly. Older Post Modifying the intake seat to accept a 2.11-inch valve is a simple process that most machine shops can perform for a couple hundred dollars. anyone interested in this stuff? The intake and exhaust ports of the Pontiac round ports were noticeably wider and larger than a typical D-port. The combustion chamber is an extension of the valve seat and the seat angles. But before you can do that, the owner will need to find a GP with working A/C, and remove all the hundreds of A/C parts, firewall, and hardware, not to mention pulling both sets of dashboards, and then reassembly, while protecting that gorgeous paint and interior. The cam measures 240/248 degrees duration, ground on a lobe separation angle of 106 degrees. Unlike a traditional Pontiac cylinder head, where intake runners share a common wall, the center exhaust ports are siamesed, and some intake and exhaust ports flow better than others, the Warp-6 ports are located in the same relative position regardless of the cylinder and each intake and exhaust port offers the same level of airflow. I think this car is going to sit around for a while because its not equipped with factory A/C. While the number-96 R/A II casting contains an intake port thats nearly identical to the number-670 D-port, and subsequently flows around 210 cfm, the intake port volume of the R/A IV, 455 H.O., and Super Duty 455 was increased at least 170 cc, and even more depending upon the application. Exhaust port configuration is unchanged, and remains a typical Pontiac round-port. The complete casting includes stainless-steel 2.11/1.66- inch valves, a single valve spring package thats intended for a flat-tappet camshaft with as much as .575-inch valve lift, bronze valve guides, and 7/16-inch ARP rocker studs. $20.00. And dont forget, Ohio summers cound get very hot and humid. The exhaust ports require custom tube headers that measure more than 2 inches in diameter. GM did allow for custom colors upon request and on some makes/models, there is a code on the data plate that would indicate a custom color. It will quickly and easily boost airflow toward 210 cfm, and additional porting can significantly increase it beyond that. Cant help but compare this the the Buick Riviera. The Build. SuperFlows equation is reasonably accurate. Occasionally Ive stumbled upon 64 Pontiacs wearing the new-for-64 Goldwood Yellow its just that Pontiac was the only GM division that didnt offer this color for 64. If exhaust tubing is so large that the charge isnt able to maintain its velocity, an engine with excessive exhaust fl ow revs lazily and lacks strong low-end and mid-range torque. A series of new cylinder heads boasting of improved airflow were developed to substantiate strong top end performance. I was advised by Charlie's not to use a windage tray with that pan, but I filled the pockets in the block at the pan rail to keep the oil from splashing back into the crank. The Tiger head features a fast-burn chamber that measures 66 cc. The odd choice of pan configuration was to take advantage of the liberal rules in effect for the 2012 EMC competition, though as Semchee tells us, the majority of the oiling system is OEM Pontiac: "I used the huge pan to keep the windage from the crank down and prevent wrapping all the oil up. The exhaust flows about 70 percent of that (182 cfm). ", Semchee continued on the valvetrain: "The lifters are Scorpion limited-travel hydraulic rollers. The best feature 2.11/1.77-inch valves, threaded rocker arm studs, and six-bolt exhaust manifold flanges. One accepts a typical round-port tube header and the other features a raised-port design that requires a custom tube header. Web$30,000 1972 Pontiac Grand Prix Model SJ Jan 11, 2023 Model overview Model description In the American automotive landscape, the years around 1970 were the era of big, and while the Grand Prix wasnt the biggest offering from Pontiac, it was still plenty big Any change to static ratio involves replacing one or more of the aforementioned components. They must be professionally ported to the desired size and level of airflow (left). March 27, 2016, 01:24 PM. As-cast chamber volume measures 65 cc, but it can be CNC machined to 74 or 85 cc at an additional cost. All the 421s are 4-bolt main, '67 & '68 428s were all 4-bolt, in '69 the lower-HP engines (360 HP) were 2-bolt. Standard valve sizes measure 2.25/1.80 inches. When comparing cylinder heads where intake port length is nearly identical, port volume is a common fi gure that lends a general insight to the crosssectional area of a particular cylinder head. It can accommodate up to 2.40/1.85- inch units and at least 515 cfm with professional porting. If the listing for this Pontiac has one failing, the seller doesnt offer a single shot of the engine bay. You could also have optioned a 4 speed transmission too. The High Port combustion chamber is a modern fast-burn design. The Tiger head features a fast burn combustion chamber that measures 50 cc in as cast form. I cant think of any wheels that better combine style and aggression than the companys 8-lug wheels. If so, based on the asking price, I hope the owner has them as they are probably very difficult to replace. We use encrypted SSL security to ensure that your credit card information is 100% protected. The stroke increased to 4.21-inch (106.9 mm). If, for some reason, you dont like it go and find another comparable one. In 1968 Pontiac heads changed from a closed chamber to an open chamber design. That doesnt suggest that a port can never be too small or too large, however. Web4 results for pontiac 428 engine complete. The latter is ideal for modern production engines where effi cient combustion can reduce tailpipe emissions. When developing a high-flow aftermarket cylinder head, the diameter of the intake and exhaust valve package is limited by bore size. You might assume that simply enlarging a port improves airflow, and that sometimes does result, but its important the additional port size is located in areas of the port where it can actually enhance airflow. For a performance goal greater than 500 hp, minor port cleanup that increases peak intake airflow to at least 300 cfm is available from most Pontiac builders for a few hundred dollars. Sign up for our free daily email and youll never miss another find: Disclosure: This site may receive compensation when you click on some links and make purchases. 428CI Pontiac Engine - MotorTrend Original Pontiac D-port cylinder heads are not overly difficult to find today. UCC Truck Show 2023: Maximum Performance Under Big-Time Pressure. A smaller port flows well for strong peak horsepower, but maintains good port velocity for quick throttle response and low end torque. For the couple hundred dollars it adds to the cost of an otherwise complete casting, it produces one of the best performance values available today. Pontiac was a brand synonymous with performance, climaxing with the breakout GTO intermediate that launched the muscle car era, a position reinforced by worthy Firebirds, Bonnevilles, Catalinas, and Gran Prix model variants through those years. That I guess is where we disagree. The BIN price is right at the upper end of what you might expect to pay for a 67 Hardtop, but taken at face value, that figure might be justified. As part of its Performer line, the modern interpretation includes an exhaust crossover and is 50-state emissions legal. Pontiac began identifying its cylinder heads with a secondary application stamp in 1973. Some dont. Without A/C, you got a 3.42 axle ratio. Become a member to add images to your comments. A typical cast-iron Pontiac D-port measures 190 to 210 cfm of peak intake airflow at 28 inches of pressure. Mike Semchee is one of those loyal Pontiac enthusiasts, and for our annual engine-building competition, the AMSOIL Engine Masters Challenge, he represented the faithful with a true Pontiac entry in the Street Division of competition. Even with the added intake port length, Edelbrock specifically designed its Pro Port Raw to accept a traditional Pontiac intake manifold. With the high spring pressure and the radical cam we used a stud girdle to stabilize the valvetrain. oneeeyed777 (103) 100%. Like its intake and exhaust ports, the Pro Port Raw combustion chamber is also completely unfinished. Tested: 1968 Pontiac GTO 428 / Royal Bobcat - Car and Driver They do excellent, perfect stuff. That is the reason the actual compression for 428s is lower than the 400s in some cases. It is best to contact the manufacturer for further details. Explanation video related what is a 428 pontiac engine worth. I just put a little .030-inch hole in the screw-in plug at the back of the motor near the distributor gears to help to keep them oiled. Builders have maximized its flow limit, however. The blue paint and creme interior is a nice warm look as long as you like baby blue. Specialized castings can flow more than 400 cfm. For Pontiacs built from 1967 forward, the stock angle is 14 degrees and Edelbrock offers a Pro Port Raw with a valve angle of 12.6 degrees. A combustion chamber that shrouds the valves can restrict airflow as it expands, limiting airfl ow at all lift points. A smaller intake port is ideal for an engine that spends most of its time operating from idle speed to a moderate shift point such as a typical passenger car engine or a street/strip application where a broad power band is required for operation over a wide range. It can be finished with a heart-shaped or wedge-type chamber and any volume. Roland Racing offers a second CV-1 with a 215-cc intake port for smaller engines, or for those that want their CV-1s professionally finished elsewhere. Pontiacs 428 was a sneak attack in the muscle car - Hagerty A machine shop can pull the original studs and tap the bosses to accept oversized 7/16-inch rocker arm studs for about $100. Pontiac Heaven Specific fasteners are required and McCarty Racing can provide them. The fast-burn combustion chamber is available in several sizes. I have a local guy that wants it for a GP and just want to be fair. Shop on eBay. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by desertratrodder, Feb 7, 2007. The 400-ci Ram Air V was very close to reaching production in 1969 before the tunnel port program was scrapped entirely. The Performer RPM is quite capable in as cast form, but professional engine builders have exploited its versatility for engines requiring substantially more airflow. The 428 was Pontiacs top engine for 3 short years- 1967-9. And since the 428 didn't come in an A-body or F-body, there are not many guys restoring 428 cars. Contrarily, the number-4X, -5C, and -6X castings make excellent, affordable choices for high-performance rebuilds. Yes, all that extra money and hot parts still yielded 325 (gross) hp; supposedly, although now at 5200 rpm instead of 4800. What a masterful group they had back then. I have seen some milled as much as .1 inch for dedicated race engines, but I dont recommend that for everyone. Low- and mid-lift exhaust airfl ow is very important. The result is a slight power increase with less total spark lead. Many professional Pontiac engine builders can supply a pair of cylinder heads that are tailored for your specific engine. Optional porting takes that toward 280 cfm or slightly more. The equation arrives at peak horsepower per cylinder by multiplying peak airflow by the SuperFlows predetermined Coeffi cient of Power (Cpower). The only models ever to have the 428 as standard equipment were- 1 1967 2+2, 2 1969 Grand Prix SJ and 3 1969 Bonneville [The Pontiac Bonneville is an automobile built by Pontiac from 1957 until 2005. The only thing I do to the factory oiling system is take the top half of the main bearing and machine it to match the oil passages in the block. McCarty Racings cast-aluminum reproduction mimics the original in nearly every respect, but the intake and exhaust ports are designed for improved airflow and the casting is generally beefier throughout. I can guess why this has 30,000 miles NO A/C how could you order a full size with all the options but leave that off your list on a cruiser like this? The symmetrical arrangement allows heat to dissipate evenly across the casting, improving gasket life. Its calculated by multiplying the recorded height and width at particular points within the port. Whether it actually improved performance is debatable, but Pontiac found it was more efficient and easier on tailpipe emissions. Smaller-displacement engines, particularly those with a shorter crankshaft stroke, are more sensitive to port volume. The Performer RPM uses a wedge-type combustion chamber available in with 72 or 87 cc. Also a Northern car back in the 60s would be hit, or miss on A/C. I'm pretty sure the YH has the four bolt mains but will check. Your engine builder can properly prepare your cast-iron D-ports for you, but in my opinion, one of the best options is from SD Performance. Offset lifters and a rocker shaft system is required for maximum airflow efforts, however. If its as good as claimed the asking The Performer D-port includes 2.11/1.66-inch valves. It displaces 65 cc as cast, with 72- and 87-cc chambers available with CNC machining. This 1967 Pontiac Grand Prix could be one such car because not only is it a low-mile survivor, but it features a list of desirable options as long as your arm. Semchee notes: "The JE piston pins are much lighter than those from Pontiac; the Pontiac pins were very heavy. The exhaust port flows about 70 percent of that (about 320 cfm). The intakes flowed 400 cfm at .900-inch lift, but of course we are not lifting the valves that much. The spark plug is pointed toward the exhaust valve for maximum efficiency. Truly a one of one car. As engine displacement grew in the years that followed, Pontiac revised the intake port shape slightly and increased valve sizes to improve overall airflow. The Super Chief has a fast-burn combustion chamber that can be CNC machined to most volumes between 56 and 85 cc. Pontiacs 428 was a sneak attack in the muscle car - Hagerty Pontiac commonly used pressed rocker studs on its low-performance applications. Just how much depends upon displacement, but maximum operating speed and operational efficiently are most important. My high school auto shop teacher told us to run the AC occasionally to prevent this I guess I forgot, as we were on a trip in the wifes 71 Nova when there was a loud squeal from under the hood as we were on I-90 just east of Snoqualmie Pass. Considering airflow throughout the entire valve lift range is more important. Click the button below and we will send you an exclusive deal on this book. One has a valve-topiston angle of 12.6 degrees and the other is 11 degrees. Port velocity is a critical element of engine performance. When compared to the 72-cc casting, airflow is negatively affected. The High Port is a high flow replacement that bolts to any conventional Pontiac V-8 block, uses the stock valve train configuration, and accepts any standard Pontiac intake manifold and round port exhaust header. The round-port castings were coveted by racers for years, particularly the 1968 R/A II number-96s, and the numbers- 722 and -614 from the 19691970 R/A IV because of their good fl ow characteristics and small combustion chambers. Pontiac Complete Engines for 400 for sale | eBay also-check on the front passenger side of the block, next to the timing chain cover, there will be a 2 didgit code stamped there (ys,xm,sr,etc,etc,etc). The Warp-6 casting is available fully machined, but bare, and completely finished and ready to install. Port velocity is an important factor in achieving strong low-speed performance for a street engine. is it worth anything? I grew up in this era (in WNY) and my dad always told me AC was an unnecessary luxury item. Dynamic ratio calculators are more diffi cult to find, and require inputting detailed camshaft valve events. Written by Rocky Rotella and Posted with Permission of CarTechBooks. It makes it very easy to tune, and you can pull the cam easily without having to do as much disassembly to the front of the engine. Its easy to determine which of the ports are larger. Note that Pontiac normally overrated the compression by about .5 point. I consider the as-cast KRE D-port an excellent alternative to any cast-iron original. Compression adds horsepower and torque throughout the entire RPM range and it can make a given engine seem larger at low speed and can make the camshaft seem larger at high speed. Pontiac V-8S 326 301 350 389 400 421 428 455 Engine Max Performance Manual (For: Pon I cant say I have seen this paint color or the interior color for that matter on a 67. pontiac 428 Here's a question from a guy who doesn't know much about Pontiacs. Requiring a minimum bore diameter of 4.31 inches, the Tiger head is capable of delivering more than 900 hp on a typical 500-inch Pontiac V-8. Its special order paint and overall condition should allow it to turn heads, while its drivetrain should set pulses racing whenever the right foot hits the floor. Hagerty Price Guide value for a 1967 Pontiac Grand Prix Convertible with the 428 cubic-inch/376-horsepower V8 in #1 condition is $76,400. Hard call. Here in the Charlotte area, they go for about 2K, maybe 2.5K with 4-bolt mains and the better heads which in my opinion is high. the owner WebThe 428 was one of the long journal V8 engines that Pontiac produced. The OEM cranks are good and strong. In most cases, it wasnt needed as the vents and side windows were designed to move more air than todays systems. Bolted to the DTS Powermark engine dyno at the University of Northwestern Ohio, this hot Pontiac combination had the opportunity to prove its worth. WebThis improved port flow and overall performance. My dad ordered 71 GP SJ in bronze with a buckskin? The brand was introduced as a limited production performance convertible during the 1957 model year]. The Durable Popularity of the Pontiac 428 - Classic Car Insurance ARP number-290-7201 rocker stud kit is specifically designed for converting an original pressed-stud cylinder head to threaded studs. They had written up at least two Chevys and another Pontiac maybe in the same combo. Growing up in the Pacific Northwest, AC on cars was that extra belt to run the compressor that would lockup from lack of use. Yes its loaded, and if the 428 HO is numbers matching, all the better. $20.00. Not long ago the only cylinder heads available for the Pontiac V-8 were castiron originals. Need to enjoy this car for what it is. A static compression ratio between 13:1 to 14:1 is quite common in race engines where 108- to 110-octane race fuel is used exclusively. The closest that I could get was one called Mayfair Blue, but Pontiac had last offered that back in 1954. The paint color is beautiful with the interior color. The Super Chief also requires a rocker shaft system with offset intake rocker arms to accommodate the wide diameter intake ports. When we turn our attention to the Grand Prixs interior, what we are confronted with is a continuation of the theme of immaculate presentation. WebThere is a wide variety of complete engines available for Pontiac cars and trucks, increasing the odds youll find that Pontiac 400 engine for sale. We went up and looked at it and it was beautiful. Need help with this Pontiac 428 build..Where are the Pontiac An aluminum casting allows a slightly greater amount of heat from every combustion event to dissipate into the coolant jacket surrounding the combustion chamber, and less of it is applied as force on the piston. Roland Racing CV-1 features canted-valve angles. The vehicles curb weight of 4,233lbs is about what you might expect from a car of this type and size. This car has suffered neither of those problems, and it continues to present as superbly as it would have the bay that the original owner drove the car off the showroom floor. Ive previously discussed the benefits and drawbacks of pale vinyl trim, and the Parchment that we see in this car is as pale as they come. That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. For engines that require additional airflow to reach a target horsepower peak, the Performer RPM can be modified for even greater flow potential. While this color may not be everybodys cup of tea its genuine GM, and its what it left the assembly line with, so it shouldnt adversely affect the value of this car as would a post-production color change. The two-barrel 256-hp version of the 389 was base engine in Catalinas. Quicker heat dissipation is one major benefit that aluminum castings offer over iron. I was 17 and so angry with them. As Semchee tells us: "What is great now is all the aftermarket support with the heads and other parts. 428 pontiac engine for sale | eBay Enjoy banner ad-free browsing with Pontiac GTO Forum Plus. I have been looking on other sites for info and from what I can tell this number is used for both 400 and 428's. I even went searching their dealer website but managed to draw a blank. As the piston reaches bottom dead center (BDC) during the power stroke and begins traveling upward on the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve opens and excess pressure trapped in the cylinder vents outward through the exhaust port. Whatever its called, its stunning! Chevy used canted valve technology when developing its big-block, and there are a great number of aftermarket companies producing canted valve cylinder heads for many makes. Its an easy way to increase peak airflow by about 20 cfm. Bonnevilles were full-sized, with the exception of a brief period of mid-size between 1982 and 1986. We made the change and picked up around 20 hp. The more air thats drawn into a cylinder as the intake valve opens and closes, the more intense the combustion event is when the appropriate amount of fuel is added, and that translates into greater potential for horsepower and torque. How much horsepower does a 428 Pontiac Motor have? Sponsored. The engine was dressed with a full MSD ignition system including an MSD 7AL-2 Plus control box, which is programmable, but it was set for a straight 36 degrees advance for total timing. I forgot to mention in my post that it looks like the moldings that should be along the bottom of the fender skirts are missing? It has taken a while for its popularity to catch on, but with some noticeable success on the dyno and drag strip, the CV-1 has gained notoriety and proven itself as a viable option for any maxperformance Pontiac V-8.
